Agenda item

To consider a report by Councillor Barry Mellor, Lead Member for Environment and Transport (copy enclosed) seeking Cabinet approval of the Local Needs Assessment, the Draft Local Toilet Strategy, and the planned next steps for future public conveniences provision in Denbighshire.

RESOLVED that Cabinet –

 

(a)      approves the Local Needs Assessment (Appendix 1 to the report);

 

(b)      approves the Draft Local Toilet Strategy (Appendix 4 to the report);

 

(c)      endorses the proposed next steps for each Public Convenience facility (Appendix 6 to the report);

 

(d)      confirms that it has read, understood and taken account of the Wellbeing Impact Assessment (Appendix 9 to the report), and

 

(e)      delegates authority for the Lead Member for Highways and Environment to agree any changes required before publishing the Local Toilet Strategy.

Councillor Barry Mellor presented the report seeking Cabinet approval of the Local Needs Assessment, the Draft Local Toilet Strategy, and the planned next steps for future Public Conveniences (PCs) provision in Denbighshire.

 

The Corporate Director: Environment and Economy, Head of Highways and Environmental Services and Principal Manager Catering and Cleaning also attended for this item.  Councillor Mellor highlighted the importance of public toilets and had been working with the service with a view to keeping toilets open where there was a clear need which had been reflected within the report.

 

The Head of Service drew specific attention to the following elements of the report –

 

·       Public Toilet Needs Assessment – the assessment of need for toilets within local communities and public consultation, with an identified need for PCs in Rhyl, Prestatyn, Denbigh, Ruthin, Llangollen and Corwen but no identified need in St. Asaph, Rhuddlan or Dyserth

·       Draft Local Toilets Strategy (based on the Needs Assessment and subsequent public consultation) – set out the plan to achieve the overall aim for PC provision

·       Next steps – detailed the current provision and future options to ensure the aims of the Strategy were met whilst working within budgetary restrictions.  This involved focusing on the provision of PCs in towns that had an identified need; reviewing charges for toilets and investing in them to be able to charge for them; reviewing the operational arrangements and opening hours of PCs; exploring options for Council owned PCs to be transferred to other organisations/partners, and the promotion and expansion of the Community Toilet Scheme.

 

The report included a proposed plan for PCs and recommended, in summary –

 

·       Given that the operation of PCs was a discretionary service, the Council should cease to operate PCs in towns where there was no identified need

·       Pod facilities that were at end of life and the software and parts were no longer available should be closed and decommissioned

·       PCs in towns with an identified need should be upgraded to enable them to accept cashless payment so they could be unstaffed (an application to Welsh Government’s Brilliant Basics Fund to upgrade facilities had been unsuccessful and further external funding opportunities were being explored, including working in partnership with City/Town/Community Councils and seeking their contributions alongside investment from the Council’s capital funds)

·       Setting the price of entry for PCs at a level to enable the service to operate in budget, and further partnership working with City/Town/Community Councils

·       Continuing promotion of the Community Toilet Scheme to expand take up.

 

Cabinet carefully considered the report and its contents.  Whilst no one was in favour of reducing public conveniences provision within the county the Council, along with all other local authorities, faced significant budget pressures and it was in that context that difficult decisions needed to be made to protect statutory services.  The importance of public toilets was recognised, and Cabinet considered the plans to both invest and upgrade facilities based on identified need and also the mitigation measures as outlined for those facilities where closure was proposed.

 

Main areas of debate focused on the following –

 

·       Councillor Emrys Wynne highlighted an accuracy point and it was confirmed that Ruthin had been included as a town with an identified need for PCs and Ruthin Festival Committee (not Ruthin Town Council) had expressed an interest to take over the Market Street facility for a different purpose; it was suggested in the event of any toilet closures notices were placed to advise of the nearest facilities

·       Cabinet considered the promotion and uptake of the Community Toilet Scheme (CTS) to be crucial to address any gaps in provision in all towns, particularly highlighting the importance of securing alternative provision in Dyserth, Rhuddlan and St. Asaph where toilet closures were proposed.  Whilst it was accepted that the methodology used had established there was no identified need in those particular areas, in reality those areas did require toilet provision for both residents and visitor use.  The Wellbeing Impact Assessment had also acknowledged some potential unintended consequences for people with disabilities and protected characteristics.  It was agreed that the Member Area Groups in those affected areas be contacted with a view to sourcing suitable local businesses to join the CTS and officers provided assurances that much more proactive work would be carried out to target and secure that provision.  Cabinet also referred to the £500pa payable for joining the CTS and felt the amount could prove a barrier to take up suggesting a greater incentive and flexibility over the amount payable depending on the range/type of facilities offered and its strategic location.  It was also felt that lessons could be learned from other local authorities with established schemes.  Officers confirmed that whilst £500pa was the standard rate nationally, the amount would be reviewed as requested by Cabinet with more flexibility as part of the overall approach

·       an estimated £330k was required to upgrade facilities to accept cashless payments and external grant (lottery) funding would be sought in the first instance.  If unsuccessful, there may be a discussion as to whether the Council needed to invest in those facilities alongside City/Town/Community Councils

·       Cabinet discussed the role of the City/Town/Community Councils within the process, highlighting the need for true partnership working and collaboration early in the process.  Officers gave assurances that the Council had worked hard to engage with the local councils from the start of the process with mixed results and it was hoped that a decision on the next steps would help to progress matters and encourage further engagement with those who had not been forthcoming to date.  If Cabinet approved the Strategy there was a need to be clear with those affected City/Town/Community Councils about those toilets closures with further discussions regarding funding to retain the facilities; other elements of engagement would focus on the amount charged for toilet facilities and any investment required if it was not possible to secure external funding to upgrade the facilities, both of which would involve a partnership approach

·       the different types of cashless systems were discussed, including a RADAR key which enabled access to disabled toilets, and some concern was expressed that there would not be an option to pay with cash.  Officers advised that further work would need to be carried out regarding the operation and implementation of a cashless system with only basic estimates having been undertaken to date.  A system that accepted both cash and card payments would not result in the budget reductions required given that any form of cash based operation would not reduce the operational costs of the facilities to the level to remain within budget.  A cashless system would enable a sustainable system for the future, and it was increasingly common to use such facilities through non-cash means.

 

At this point the Leader opened up the debate to non-Cabinet members who took the opportunity to express their views and raise questions arising from the report.

 

Members highlighted the wealth of public opposition to the proposals and their own concerns, particularly the proposed toilet closures in St. Asaph, Rhuddlan and Dyserth, and impact on residents and visitors alike.  Local members voiced their opposition to the proposed toilet closures in their own ward areas with Councillors Peter Scott and Martyn Hogg highlighting the requirement for PCs in St. Asaph and Councillor Ann Davies making the case for Rhuddlan.  Cabinet was urged to seek alternative means and solutions to avoid toilet closures and whilst it was acknowledged PCs were a non-statutory service it was considered a vital service nonetheless that should be protected.  Councillor Martyn Hogg in particular was concerned about the methodology used to inform the Needs Assessment and felt that sufficient budget should be provided to retain the service with consideration given to raising the necessary income via an increase in Council Tax if necessary.  Councillor Gwyneth Ellis felt that meeting the funding costs via increasing the precept of City/Town/Community Councils would be a regressive form of taxation.

 

The Officers and Lead Member responded to questions and concerns –

 

·       detailed the discussions to date with City/Town/Community Councils particularly relating to St. Asaph, Rhuddlan and Dyserth and there had been little appetite at that time to increase the precept to meet the financial demands required to keep the facilities open although it was acknowledged that once a decision had been made on the proposals there may be a different view and further engagement.  It was stressed that regardless of previous discussions, the Council had an open door policy and was keen to engage in discussions at any time on the matter.  The financial position in respect of the three towns was clarified with a collective approach required to ensure a mobile cleaning service could be provided but the costs to service one of the facilities in isolation would be far higher

·       detailed the timeline and actions to date from the initial proposal some 12/18 months ago to review PCs given the budget constraints to reach this final stage in the process with a way forward for each town as outlined in the report and a final decision being sought from Cabinet on those proposals and next steps.  However, in the event funding could not be secured to upgrade the facilities in order to deliver the proposals the matter may need further consideration through the democratic processes, i.e., via Scrutiny Committee and Cabinet

·       work would continue to engage with other third party organisations and businesses with a view to retaining and/or contributing to the costs of those facilities and addressing any gaps in provision via the Community Toilet Scheme and offices responded to questions raised regarding the circumstances relating to individual facilities and rationale behind the proposals for those facilities

·       reiterated that there had been engagement with City/Town/Community Councils at the outset and a targeted approach from the Council in that regard with continuing attempts to initiate those conversations with little success in many cases despite numerous attempts and requests, but the Council remained committed to continuing that approach and it was hoped a final decision on the proposals would prove a catalyst for future engagement going forward

·       much effort had been made to engage with Arriva and Transport for Wales regarding the transport hubs but they did not wish to work with the Council

·       the process had been undertaken as quickly as possible but there was a need to undertake due process and much work had been carried out in that regard in order to ensure a correct and fully informed position to present for consideration

·       reiterated that the provision of PCs was a non-statutory function with many local authorities across Wales not providing any PCs and much work had been carried out into providing a solution to keep as many toilets open as possible in the county taking into account the budgetary reductions required in order to focus resources on the delivery of statutory services

·       explained the standard methodology and STEAM data used in the Needs Assessment to define need versus non-need with a consistent approach taken across the county.  It was accepted there would be an impact, including on the elderly and those with disabilities, but the facilities needed to be affordable and sustainable for the future and much work was being undertaken to explore the other options outlined in the strategy to maximise that provision going forward

·       the Council had toilet facilities available for its staff to use around the county

·       not all facilities were charged for currently and were expensive to operate and it was proposed to place a charging facility on all PCs that were kept open with an option for City/Town/Community Councils to contribute financially if they wished to keep the facility free to use or reduce the amount charged

·       welcomed members’ views and ideas regarding potential solutions to maximise toilet provision across the county and the Head of Service agreed to share a designated email address with members outside of the meeting for that purpose

·       whilst removal of £200k from the PC budget seemed small in comparison to the Council’s overall spend, all savings contributed to the overall amount required.

 

Cabinet acknowledged the difficult decisions needed given the financial situation.  Councillor Julie Matthews further stressed the need to work to secure replacement provision and/or retain existing provision where possible through collaboration with City/Town/Community Councils and third sector organisations/businesses, and to review the Community Toilet Scheme and the £500pa amount payable with a view to removing barriers for businesses to engage.  Whilst the provision of public conveniences was a non-statutory function it remained an essential provision and she asked that firmer proposals be brought back to members as to how provision in the smaller areas within the county would be protected.

 

The Leader acknowledged the lengthy and detailed debate and reiterated that the Council was keen to engage and operated an open door policy.

 

RESOLVED that Cabinet –

 

(a)      approves the Local Needs Assessment (Appendix 1 to the report);

 

(b)      approves the Draft Local Toilet Strategy (Appendix 4 to the report);

 

(c)      endorses the proposed next steps for each Public Convenience facility (Appendix 6 to the report);

 

(d)      confirms that it has read, understood and taken account of the Wellbeing Impact Assessment (Appendix 9 to the report), and

 

(e)      delegates authority for the Lead Member for Highways and Environment to agree any changes required before publishing the Local Toilet Strategy.

 

At this point (12 noon) the meeting adjourned for a refreshment break.