Agenda and draft minutes

Councillor Chris Evans, a signatory to the call-in request – agenda item 5 had tendered his apologies.

As the Chair was attending the meeting remotely from abroad he had arranged with the Vice-Chair that she took the chairing responsibilities for the meeting.

The Monitoring Officer explained that Cabinet members had a prejudicial interest in business item 5 and therefore could not be in attendance at the meeting unless they had been invited by the Committee.  Councillor Elen Heaton, the Lead Member for Health and Social Care, had been invited by the Committee to attend the meeting specifically for the discussion on business 5 and to answer members’ questions in relation to the decision taken by Cabinet.

Councillor Alan James declared a personal interest in agenda item 6 - Mistreatment of Dogs as his wife Councillor Win Mullen James was the Lead Member for the report.

Councillor Mark Young declared a personal interest in agenda item 5- Review of Cabinet Decision Relating to The Recommendation of the Regional Fee Setting Group as he had attended events where the Chair and Chief Executive of Care Forum Wales had been in attendance.

No urgent matters had been raised with the Chair of the meeting ahead of the commencement of business.

To receive the minutes of the Communities Scrutiny Committee held on 08 December 2022 (copy enclosed).

The minutes of the Communities Scrutiny Committee meeting held on the 8 December 2022 were presented for consideration.

Matters of accuracy – None

Matters arising – None

RESOLVED, that the minutes of the meeting held on 8 December 2022 be received and approved as true and correct record of the proceedings.

To consider a report by the Scrutiny Co-ordinator (copy attached) which seeks the Committee, in accordance with the Council’s Call-In Procedure Rules, to review the decision taken by Cabinet on 13^th December 2022 (copy attached).

10.10 – 11.00 a.m.

The Chair welcomed officers and the Lead Member Councillor Elen Heaton to the meeting. Members were provided with background information and reasoning for the call in request. The Chair provided members with a detailed description of the call in procedure.

Members were reminded the reasons for the call were as stated in the report:

“To request that Cabinet reconsiders its decision of 13 December 2022 to accept the recommendations of the Fees Group given that both Gwynedd and Ynys Môn are recommending to pay care providers considerably more with a view to ensuring the future sustainability of the social care sector in their areas.”

The Monitoring Officer informed members that annex B to the report, was the report presented to Cabinet in December 2022. That report was deemed to include exempt information under the provisions of the Local Government Act 1972. Therefore, the press and public had been excluded from the consideration of that report at the Cabinet meeting. The exemption had been granted as per paragraph 14, of part 4 of schedule 12A of the 1972 Act as the report contained information relating to the financial or business affairs of an individual or an organisation, including that of the local authority.

Councillor Alan James proposed that the meeting be moved to Part II confidential business for the discussion on the remainder of the business item, Councillor Delyth Jones seconded the proposal.  On being put to the vote 6 members were in favour of excluding the press and public and 3 were against.  Therefore, it was:

RESOLVED that under Section 100A of the Local Government Act 1972, the Press and Public be excluded from the meeting for the following items of business on the grounds that it involved the likely disclosure of exempt information as defined in Paragraph 14 of Part 4 of Schedule 12A of the Local Government Act 1972.

EXCLUSION OF PRESS AND PUBLIC

Councillor Merfyn Parry provided members with the reasoning behind calling-in the Cabinet’s decision for detailed scrutiny.

The Lead Member Councillor Elen Heaton stressed the next stage of the procedure, to consult with providers, had not yet begun due to the Cabinet decision being called-in for scrutiny.  She also emphasised that whilst this year Cabinet had agreed to accept all the recommendations of the Regional Fee Setting Group, in previous years and under a different administration this annual decision had been taken via the Lead Members Delegated Decision process.  She stressed the data used by the Fees Group in formulating the recommendations had been the most up to date information which had been provided to the Group by those providers who were willing to supply data to them.  In addition to using the data available the Fees Group had followed a robust methodology in order to calculate the recommended fee levels.

The Chair allowed all signatories present at the meeting to put forward their reasoning for calling-in the decision with officers and the Lead Member also given time to respond. During the course of the debate:

• officers stressed the need to commit to a plan that as an authority was affordable and could be maintained.
• it was explained that the Fees Group’s role was to establish the actual cost of care in North Wales based on the data available to them.  However, in formulating the 2023/24 recommended fee levels the Fees Group had also applied a robust methodology which took into account the implications of paying staff the Real Living Wage as well as the high inflation rate prevailing at the time when the proposed fees levels were being calculated.
• outlined the various methods used  ...  view the full minutes text for item 5.

To consider a report by the Public Protection Business Manager, examining the extent of legal and illegal dog sales within Denbighshire (copy attached).

11.00 – 11.50 a.m.

The Scrutiny Co-ordinator explained to members with the agreement of the Lead Member Councillor Win Mullen-James and the Chair it had been agreed to defer the presentation of this report to a later meeting.

To consider a report by the Scrutiny Coordinator (copy enclosed) seeking a review of the committee’s forward work programme and updating members on relevant issues.

11.50 – 12.05 p.m.

The Scrutiny Coordinator introduced the report (previously circulated) seeking members' review of the Committee’s work programme and providing an update on relevant issues.

There were two items listed for the next Communities Scrutiny Committee on 09 March 2023:

·         New Waste and Recycling Model

·         Second homes and Short-term Holiday lets.

Members agreed to include the deferred report on the mistreatment of dogs on the work programme for the March meeting.

The next meeting of the Scrutiny Chairs and Vice-Chairs Group was to take place following the meeting on the 19 January 2023.

Appendix 2 contained a copy of the Member Proposal form

Appendix 3 to the report was the Cabinet’s forward work.

Appendix 4 – informed members of the recommendations made at the previous Scrutiny meeting.

The Scrutiny Co-ordinator highlighted the standard agenda item titled – Feedback from Committee Representatives. She informed members that all scrutiny committees would in the near future be requested to appoint representatives to the service challenge groups. These groups met on an annual basis to review the services’ performance and progress in the delivery of their objectives. Following the meetings representatives would be expected to provide feedback at the next committee meeting.   Members would be provided with further information via email. 

Councillor Merfyn Parry suggested a follow up report in six months on the progress made on the Regional Fee Setting Group. The Scrutiny Co-ordinator suggested the member completed the Member Proposal Form, which would be presented to the Chairs and Vice Chairs Group for inclusion on the committee’s work programme. 

The Committee:

Resolved: to receive the report and confirm the Committee’s forward work programme as detailed in Appendix 1 to the report.

To receive any updates from Committee representatives on various Council Boards and Groups.

12.05 – 12.15 p.m.

There was no feedback.