Agenda and draft minutes

Apologies had been received from the Monitoring Officer who would be slightly late arriving and would need to leave before the end of the meeting.

No declaration of interest had been raised.

No urgent matters had been raised.

To receive the minutes of the Standards Committee meeting held on 13 December 2024 (copy enclosed).

Minutes of the Standards Committee held on 13 December 2024 were submitted.

Accuracy – no accuracy points were raised.

Matters Arising –

Page 10, Item 6: Minutes of the last meeting – Allocation Reset (Councils for Independent Members to visit) / City, Town and Community Councils list of new and less experienced clerks – The Deputy Monitoring Officer confirmed an analysis of visits undertaken by Independent Members since 2020 had been carried out and a list of those City, Town and Community Councils identified for future visits would be circulated following the meeting for members to consider which council meetings to attend going forward.  Where it was known, the list would also include whether those meetings were held predominately in Welsh or English with priority visits to be given to those with new/less experienced Council Clerks and where any issues had been identified.  Financial resources were now available to support those visits.

Page 10, Item 6: Minutes of the last meeting – Circulation of the Public Services Ombudsman of Wales Terms of Reference – The Deputy Monitoring Officer confirmed that she would circulate the terms of reference following the meeting.

Page 13, Item 11: Draft Annual Standards Committee Report – the Chair noted that the final version of the report had not included the number of Council visits attended by Independent Members of the Standards Committee as requested and it was agreed that information be included in future annual reports; the inclusion of APW decisions to the list of agenda items for 13 December 2024 (Appendix 1 to the report) as requested by members had not been included.

Page 14, Item 12: Recruitment of New Independent Members of the Standards Committee – a discussion on the process to be followed, including timescales, had taken place in a separate session before the meeting and was currently underway.

RESOLVED that the minutes of the meeting held on 13 December 2024 be received and approved as a correct record.

To consider a report by the Trainee Solicitor (copy enclosed) on the published ‘Our Findings’ page on the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales website.

A report was submitted by the Trainee Solicitor (previously circulated) on the latest case summaries contained in the ‘Our Findings’ section of the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales (PSOW) website and the latest decisions made by the Adjudication Panel for Wales (APW).

The ‘Our Findings’ section covered all matters investigated by the PSOW and not just conduct matters.  A summary of each case involving Code of Conduct complaints investigated for the period 21 November 2024 to 28 February 2025 had been provided, which had been broken down by subject matter as follows –

·       Promotion of equality and respect                3

·       Disclosure and registration of interests         1

The outcomes were categorised as follows –

·       No action necessary                                    1

·       Referred to Standards Committee                2

·       Referred to Adjudication Panel for Wales     1

None of the cases related to a council in Denbighshire.

Since 21 November 2024 there had been one decision made by the APW in relation to references from the PSOW categorised as “Breach of paragraphs 4(b), 4(c), 6(1)(a) & 6(1)(d) of the Council’s Code of Conduct.  Disqualified for 21 months”.  The case did not relate to a councillor in Denbighshire.  There were no appeals against Standards Committee decisions.

The Chair thanked the Trainee Solicitor for the report which was useful for the Committee to consider whether any interventions could be put in place as a result.  It was noted that the APW had imposed a disqualification of 21 months whereas the maximum sanction which could be imposed by the Standards Committee was a 6 month suspension, and there was some debate regarding the referral of the cases by the PSOW to either the Standards Committee or APW depending on their judgement as to the severity of the offence.  The Monitoring Officer was asked whether there was a mechanism by which the Standards Committee could refer a case back to the PSOW if they considered a more serious sanction should be imposed, and whilst he did not think there was an automatic power in that regard, he would confirm the position and report back to members thereon.

Members found the report interesting and informative in terms of examining the rationale for sanctions imposed for particular breaches which would be useful when considering their own sanctions for particular cases, although it was acknowledged that the full detail of the case was not disclosed.  The importance of providing robust reasons for any decision based on the evidence presented was also highlighted, particularly given the right of appeal, with reference made to a previous Standards Committee hearing to illustrate that point.  Finally, reference was made to the finding of the PSOW in the case relating to the disclosure and registration of interest, which highlighted the importance of training on dispensation requests (that had been a previous cause for concern of the Standards Committee given the lack of requests) and the need to continue to raise awareness of the issue.

RESOLVED that the contents of the report be noted.

To note the attendance by members of the Standards Committee at County, Town and Community Council and to receive their reports.

The Chair had attended a hybrid meeting of Denbighshire County Council (in the Council Chamber, Ruthin and remotely via video conference) held at 10am on Thursday, 20 February 2025 to present the Standards Committee Annual Report 2024, and had also taken the opportunity to observe the proceedings.

Attendance had been difficult to determine as not all in attendance were identified as councillors, staff or public but later in the meeting there was a recorded vote with 44 votes counted and 4 apologies/absent.  Standards Committee members County Councillors Bobby Feeley and Jon Harland and Community Councillor Gordon Hughes were also present.  Declarations of interest appeared early on the agenda and a statement read out with no declarations at that time.  Later in the meeting one councillor declared an interest but the nature of the interest as personal only or personal and prejudicial was not confirmed and there were no further declarations from other councillors who shared similar positions or a prompt for them to do so.  A further interest, personal only, was declared later in the meeting.  Simultaneous translation facilities were available.  The Monitoring Officer had explained the rules around amendments and recorded votes and there was some good, robust, professional debate during the meeting.  The lengthy meeting closed at 3.18 pm.

Whilst acknowledging the difficulties in chairing such a large hybrid meeting, with a long agenda and key items which would cause much debate, the Chair felt the meeting did not reflect an excellent impression and model in terms of the behaviours and processes that City, Town, and Community Councils could adopt.  She elaborated on her reasoning for that view and provided a number of illustrative examples taken from the meeting.  Key points for consideration were, in brief –

·       the need to strengthen the collection of declarations of interest to ensure that all declarations were declared, and the nature of the interest was made clear

·       behaviours of those attending remotely needed addressing to ensure their video was on during the meeting, were clearly identified, and exhibited attentive and professional behaviours commensurate with attending a formal public meeting

·       the length of the meeting (5 hours and 18 minutes) with only a 10-minute break was not appropriate for welfare or concentration levels

·       there was much background noise from remote attendees as not all microphones were muted (despite a prompt for the Chair) but technical issues were acknowledged after the meeting with the host unable to mute participants

·       the microphones failed to pick up sound at times when members did not speak directly into their microphones (standing to speak, turning to face others)

·       there was a lack of formality used for an official full council meeting with first names used and therefore a lack of clarity as to speakers (members/officers)

·       some overfamiliarity and inappropriate sharing of others personal details

·       it was not possible to see the name plates set out from the public gallery

·       lack of clarity in asking for votes against and abstentions

·       perception that people in the Chamber were given priority for speaking ahead of those attending remotely with no time limit on speakers/volume of contributions

·       translation headsets should be checked prior to the start of the meeting

·       the Standards Committee Annual Report was near the end of the agenda (despite a request for it to be placed earlier or moved to the next meeting) by which time many councillors had left which was reported negatively in the press.

Members discussed the appraisal of the meeting, particularly from the perception of the public as it had been reported.  It was accepted that it had been a difficult and time-consuming meeting, and  ...  view the full minutes text for item 6.

To consider any dispensation requests received from Town/City/Community Councils or at county level.

No dispensation requests had been received.

RESOLVED that the position be noted.

Prior to the break and taking his leave, the Monitoring Officer took the opportunity to express his thanks to both the Chair and Vice Chair of the Standards Committee, who were attending their last meeting, for their long service and dedication, and for their support and constructive challenge which had been well received.

At this point (11.50 am) the meeting adjourned for a refreshment break.

To receive a verbal update regarding the National Standards Forum.

The Chair and Monitoring Officer had attended the National Standards Forum held on 27 January 2025.  The Chair highlighted the following key points –

·       Pam Lucas, Local Government Policy Division, Public Services and Welsh Language Group, Welsh Government provided a position update on the Ethical Framework Review in response to the Penn Review and legal changes required with some immediate actions to be taken but others requiring more legal work.  [As part of that work the Chair queried whether the changes to the Code of Conduct in relation to Equality and Diversity and ensuring all the protected characteristics had been included had been made in Denbighshire and the Deputy Monitoring Officer agreed ascertain whether that action had been done.]

Action could be taken on –

-       Removing the restriction on ex-employees becoming members of the Standards Committee

-       Removing restrictions on former councillors joining Standards Committees

More work was needed on: APW Reforms; safeguards around suspension for complainant and councillor; permissions to appeal to APW; sanctioning powers; APW/Standards Committee to summon witnesses; express power to maintain the anonymity of witnesses; whether the range of sanctions should be changed.

Sub Committees would be formed to represent the Forum and liaise with Welsh Government.  The item on Standards Committee annual reporting arrangements had not been discussed and would be taken forward by the Sub Committees.

·       Michelle Morris – Public Services Ombudsman for Wales (PSOW) reported on the Independent Review conducted following a complaint that a staff member had been making inappropriate and unacceptable political social media posts which concluded that whilst the actions of the staff member were wrong, it had not influenced the outcomes of cases that she had been involved with.

The PSOW also referred to the following –

-       the high level of Code of Conduct work continued; last year 12 cases ran over 12 months with a similar amount expected this year

-       there were currently 100 cases, 20 of which were from two councils and the PSOW had written to the relevant Chair of the Standards Committee to advise them and see what action could be taken

-       more cases had been referred to APW or Standards Committees last year than at any point; 20 cases were expected to be referred this year

-       there had been some appeals this year and the importance of clear reasons when making decisions was emphasised

-       training was needed for all councillors, especially City, Town and Community Councillors and their clerks and the PSOW said that Standards Committee should ask about their training plans to ensure they were in place

-       pre-notification of a complaint to an accused member, which was the previous practice, was discussed to prevent situations where the accused learned of the complaint from an external source.  The Council had responded to the consultation in favour of pre-notification for that reason.

·       Other Matters –

-       Civility and Respect Pledge – there had been low uptake across Wales

-       Evidence to the Senedd Local Government and Housing Committee on the role and value of Town and Community Councils in Wales

-       National Standards Conference

-       Remuneration of Standards Committee members.

The Chair advised that the minutes of the meeting could be circulated to members once they became available.

RESOLVED that the verbal report on the meeting of the National Standards Forum held on 27 January 2025 be received and noted.

To receive a verbal report by the Monitoring Officer on the Register of Gifts and Hospitality Register.

The Deputy Monitoring Officer reminded members that the Monitoring Officer had been tasked with reviewing the process for registering gifts and hospitality.

The current process involved keeping hard copy records which were not necessarily easily accessible and therefore it was suggested that work be carried out to modernise the process to ensure it was fit for purpose.  Consequently, it was suggested that an electronic automated process be put in place where details could be registered online which would result in a more robust, simplified process and to raise awareness of the requirements in that regard.  If members were satisfied with that approach it was proposed that work would commence with a view to completion within three to six months depending on capacity.

The Chair stated that the Committee had a role to monitor the register on a regular basis.  Given the inadequacies of the current format and lack of prompting in terms of those requirements members agreed that the process needed strengthening with assurance that members were appropriately declaring gifts and hospitality and were aware of the threshold amounts in that regard to ensure confidence in the process and that it represented an accurate picture.  Members agreed to include the item in the forward work programme for September in light of the timescales provided to produce an automated system.  The Deputy Monitoring Officer added that members could then decide how often they wished to monitor the register’s activity.

RESOLVED that –

(a)      the verbal report from the Deputy Monitoring Officer be received and noted, and

(b)      progress on the modernisation of the Gifts and Hospitality Register be reported to the Standards Committee meeting on 12 September 2025.

To consider a verbal report by the Monitoring Officer regarding a joint meeting with Town, City and Community Councils.

The Chair provided some background to this item, reporting on the practice of another local authority to invite City, Town, Community Councils to a meeting of the Standards Committee, contribute to the agenda and participate in the training session beforehand.  Given the benefits of that approach the Chair had asked whether that practice could also be implemented in Denbighshire.

The Deputy Monitoring Officer (DMO) asked that the Committee identify an appropriate meeting of the Standards Committee at which they would like to invite City, Town and Community Councils to attend, and she would look to make the necessary arrangements in that regard.  The training session (held before the meeting itself) would include a topic appropriate and relevant to those councils.

In terms of the visits to councils by Independent Members as previously discussed under item 4 Minutes of the last meeting, there were approximately 19 councils who had not been visited during the last five years, and those details would be circulated to members together with the further detail as discussed, where known.  Details of the budget for those visits would also be included.

Members were also advised that a joint meeting had taken place with City, Town and Community Councils during the last twelve months with feedback that Clerks wanted more support; since then, work had commenced on a package of support for City, Town and Community Councils and arrangements were being made to recruit a dedicated liaison officer to co-ordinate that support and partnership working as well as advice surgeries.  Access was also being provided to other council services such as training resources, legal, procurement and planning together with undertaking audits to provide assurance and advice.

During the ensuing debate, the Chair elaborated on the joint meetings in which she had participated in her role with another local authority on an annual basis with the training and agenda tailored as appropriate and which had been well received.  Members agreed that the implementation of the same approach in Denbighshire would be beneficial and worthwhile and it was agreed to consider the timing of the Joint Meeting under the forward work programme item on the agenda.

RESOLVED that the verbal report from the Deputy Monitoring Officer be received and noted.

To receive a verbal report by the Head of Corporate Support Service: People/Deputy Monitoring Officer regarding the Review of Policies and Procedures.

The Deputy Monitoring Officer (DMO) explained that the intention was to provide a more formal timetable of reviewing policy and procedures which influenced or contributed to the standards of the Council and sought members’ views in terms of the involvement of the Committee in progressing that process.

During debate, the Chair pointed to the remit of the Standards Committee in reviewing particular policies and asked for clarity on which of those policies would fall to the Committee to review and the timescales for each policy review.  The DMO confirmed that she would compile a list of the relevant policies with a view to including them in the Committee’s forward work programme as appropriate over the next 12 months taking into account when they were last reviewed, or any changes required such as legislative changes.  The remit and powers of the Standards Committee were also discussed, and it was agreed that it would be useful for the Committee’s terms of reference to be circulated to all members.  Given it was likely that two new Independent Members would be appointed for the next meeting in June, the DMO suggested that the terms of reference could be included as an agenda item as a reminder of the Committee’s role and remit.

Members agreed that a clear structure of reviewing policies was required and that a list of the relevant policies and timescales be submitted to a future meeting for consideration which could then be scheduled into the forward work programme.

RESOLVED that the verbal report from the Deputy Monitoring Officer be received and noted.

To consider the Standards Committee Forward Work Programme (copy attached).

The Standards Committee Forward Work Programme was presented for consideration and members discussed and agreed the following –

·       arrangements be made for a Joint Meeting with City, Town and Community Councils at the Standards Committee meeting scheduled for 12 September (to be reviewed in the event that the new two Independent Members had not been appointed by the June meeting)

·       the Review of Policies and Procedures (list of policies and timescales) be scheduled for 6 June

·       the National Standards Forum Update be scheduled for 12 September

·       the Gifts and Hospitality Register be scheduled for 12 September

RESOLVED that, subject to the above, the Standards Committee’s Forward Work Programme be agreed.

The next meeting of the Standards Committee is scheduled for 10am on 6 June 2025.

Members noted that the Standards Committee’s next meeting had been scheduled for 10.00 am on Friday 6 June 2025. 

As the Chair and Vice Chair were attending their last meeting as members of the Standards Committee, the Chair took the opportunity to thank all members and officers involved with the Committee for their hard work, support, and contributions.  She highlighted the importance of the Committee within the County Council and conveyed her best wishes for the future.  On behalf of the Committee, Councillor Bobby Feeley paid tribute to the diligent work carried out by the Chair and Vice Chair and thanked them for their hard work, and excellent chairing of the meeting.

RESOLVED that under Section 100A of the Local Government Act 1972, the Press and Public be excluded from the meeting for the following items of business on the grounds that it involved the likely disclosure of exempt information as defined in Paragraphs 12 and 13 of Part 4 of Schedule 12A of the Local Government Act 1972.

The Deputy Monitoring Officer (DMO) submitted a confidential report (previously circulated) providing an overview of complaints against members lodged with the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales since 1 April 2023.

The DMO provided a summary of the six new complaints notified to the Monitoring Officer since the last meeting of the Committee which included four complaints against one Town Council subject to an ongoing investigation and two separate complaints which had not been investigated, together with the reasons therefore.  It was noted that two previous complaints also remained ongoing and further information was awaited on the outcome of those investigations.  In the event that any live cases resulted in referral to the Standards Committee, the Chair suggested a training process for members to prepare for hearing.

RESOLVED that the report be received and noted.

The meeting concluded at 1.15 pm.